Category: Virtual Chapel

Then they shall know that I am the Lord their God because I sent them into exile among the nations, and then gathered them into their own land. I will leave none of them behind; and I will never again hide my face from them, when I pour out my spirit upon the house of Israel, says the Lord God.
– Ezekiel 39:28-29

The people of God have been exiled in Babylon and the prophet Ezekiel is with them. He warns them of things coming but he is also given this word of hope. Ezekiel shares the word that God will restore the people; the house of Israel. It must have been such a welcome hope; their time in exile was about 70 years.

Exile comes for us in lots of different ways. It may be individual decisions we make that land us in consequences of pain and sorrow.  Or it may be deeper and harder to see, like when It comes for families and groups; even nations. We are all eventually connected to one another’s joys and sorrows. When one of us goes into exile (chosen or forced), there are always others who go as well.

When our actions and choices lead us into consequences of pain or sorrow, we know that even there Jesus shows up.  In the most difficult of places – this Savior who is not at all foreign to suffering and temptation, this Jesus who knows well our disappointment and anger; he shows up and leads us out of the darkness and into the light.  There is a pattern in the stories. It is the pattern of our Creator who allows life to unfold with our full engagement but is always making a path back home.

My life too bears the pattern. Maybe it’s familiar for you as well: walking away from what I know is most true and grounding, to follow fleeting distractions that feel better in a moment but can quickly leave scars behind. And even then, the LORD refuses to leave me damaged and wounded. Instead, the pattern repeats: gathering me up, pieces and parts, and restoring me to wholeness again.

The wounds we experience in life become pillars of strength over time. In seasons of exile we can be certain that the God of hope is making a way for us to get “home”.  And more often than not, those seasons of exile are offering us blessings we need right in the middle of the sorrow.  Our scars bear the marks of a faithful God; a Creator who never stops gathering and restoring to wholeness that which the LORD brought into being. Whether it is within the hour or day; even when it takes a lifetime. Even when it takes generations.

Where can I go from your spirit?
Or where can I flee from your presence?
If I ascend to heaven, you are there;
if I make my bed in Sheol, you are there.
If I take the wings of the morning
and settle at the farthest limits of the sea,
even there your hand shall lead me,
and your right hand shall hold me fast.
If I say, “Surely the darkness shall cover me,
and the light around me become night,”
even the darkness is not dark to you;
the night is as bright as the day,
for darkness is as light to you.
– Psalm 139:7-12

Questions to Carry Today
What scars on your body or soul are marks of a faithful God?
What hope is God whispering in your ear today?
What is God restoring in you? In us?

Prayer
God, for any one of us and all of us that find ourselves in exile, please let your word of hope plant firmly in our minds and spirits today.  Thank you for the gift of the resurrected Christ that stands in the middle of exile and restores us to new life!

Together by King and Country

In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth,
the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep,
while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.
Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
– Genesis 1:1-3

 

 

In the middle of the chaos when you think the pieces will never land…
God speaks new life into being.
In the silence of the night when sleep refuses to remain;
when you wonder why the yearning…
You are not alone; God knows your name.
When the day flashes by without warning and looking back
it makes no better sense…
God is holding you, making certain
Christ’s love is a sure defense.

Before the morning dawns – God is preparing for you.
Before the sun begins to set – your Creator is holding tomorrow.
Breathe. Keep walking. Trust.
Listen for the voice of the One who loves you:
“I have called you by name, you are mine.”

– Vona Rose Wilson
06/25/2020

Question to carry today:  How is God reminding you that you are named and loved?

Breath Prayer:
“Lord, keep holding me; keep holding us. We trust you completely. Amen.”

Lauren Daigle – Remember
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9TE8D5Vs8k

Do not fear, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by name, you are mine.
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you;
when you walk through fire you shall not be burned,
and the flame shall not consume you.
For I am the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.
– Isaiah 43:1-3

 

And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.
– Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew 28:20b

As God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience. Bear with one another and, if anyone has a complaint against another, forgive each other; just as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in the one body. And be thankful.  Colossians 3:12-15

Repentance is a word we use within the ritual of confession, pardon and peace. It weaves itself into the rhythm, we cannot escape it. Peace does not come without it. Nor does confession or pardon. Repentance (the Greek word is “metanoia”) is a change of mind and a turning toward God. It is choosing to move forward in a different direction.

When I moved to Tennessee I worked first in the city while I waited through the process of obtaining a TN Paramedic license. My research of EMS systems in the area helped me identify where I wanted to work; it was in Williamson County.  After I had my TN license in hand all I had to do was drive a few miles south and find out what was there.  Every day on my way home I passed by the split: one going south on I-65, the other on the same path I traveled each day to and from work.  My mind was made up: the EMS system I wanted to work with was in Williamson County.  I wanted to grow, and this was the place that could help shape me as a provider of emergency medical care. There was no doubt. Still, I procrastinated taking action.

I remember the day I made a quick lane shift and finally chose that sound bound turn on I-65. My heart was beating fast. I’m a small-town girl but the city had become familiar as I worked there each day.  This road was new. I’d never been to Franklin. I knew no one. It felt like a great big risk into something I couldn’t control.  You would think after moving to Nashville from a small Western Kentucky town that a short drive to Franklin, TN would be easy; but it wasn’t. That day I decided to align my actions with my mind and spirit. It felt like a huge step!

Change of direction is scary. Choosing to step into the unknown, even when you know it is the direction you need to go is difficult.  I got off at the Franklin exit on Highway 96 and pulled into the first gas station I saw.  I asked where I could find the local ambulance station. They pointed me in the right direction and the rest is history.  There is no way I could have ever imagined all the things that would come with that one turn in a different direction.

Sometimes we think of repentance as a guilt driven process where we realize how wrong we’ve been, we make confession and “change our ways”.   What if it is much more? What if turning toward God is deciding to turn toward the most amazing life we could ever imagine?  What if we just make that turn and then humbly allow the miracle of grace to unfold in our lives? What if repentance is a faithful act of turning toward the one who knows exactly what we need even before we need it?  We choose to walk in the direction of the God who brings beauty out of ashes; order out of chaos; hope out of despair. That is what we are turning toward when we practice repentance. We do something different. We do something that walks us into wholeness, one moment at a time. We take risks!

A lot of people in our communities and across our nation are doing different things right now. In some moments it looks like a national confession that things need to change; that we all need to change. On other days it looks like total mayhem as destruction follows what started out as peaceful, even if painful, expressions of desperation.  It would be easy to dismiss it all and shrink into our shells. But what if something new is happening?

What if something new is bursting out from within us?

If this is a national confession where people are saying, “our life together must change!” then there will be pardon and forgiveness in that ritual.  There may be a change of mind for all of us.  There will be a rhythm of peace that is offered; a peace that can change the course of our nation.  Peace is not offered with destruction and condemnation. It comes with humility and grace and courage. It comes by way of doing something different.

Jesus came that we might have life that is abundant and whole. We are created in the image of God. We begin there, each one of us. And we can get back there. But it will require a change of mind; moving in a different direction.  It is definitely a risk to step toward anything new God may be doing in us. We have to let go so our hands are empty enough to receive the new.  And yet, if we are turning toward the God of heaven, we know that whatever is ahead will bring true healing and peace.

What is your something different today? What is your conscious, intentional choosing to turn toward the God who created you and loves you more than you can imagine? Just do that. One step at a time. Each movement is step in the rhythm of peace.

If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. I have said these things to you so that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be complete. – John 15:10-11

Prayer
God we need you. We have oppressed and condemned people that you love. We have shouted judgements in the face of those who risk their lives to serve and we have held back our voices while our brother and sisters are pushed down, aside and out. We have failed to love each other as you love us – the primary command you have gave us. We have relied on power structures in this world instead of depending on you. We need a change of mind and in so many ways we find ourselves unable to take a step toward anything different. Please assist us. Please grant us the gift of your divine wisdom and peace.  Lead us, Lord; make haste to help us. Amen.

Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:6-7

 

 

The pardon that comes from God is complete.

“In the name of Jesus Christ, you are forgiven!”  These are the words that follow confession. These are the words we proclaim to one another every week in worship. It is the continued witness that Christ has covered our sin.  The mercy of God has been present from the beginning. Jesus made it visible for us in human form. Jesus lived God’s mercy right in front of the world for all to see. From the beginning of his ministry until the very day he took his last breath on the cross – Jesus was pardoning and forgiving and pouring out the mercy of God.

The forgiveness of God is complete. “It is finished” are the last words Jesus utters at his crucifixion. When we encounter him again – he is free; resurrected and fully alive!

Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
– Isaiah 55:6-8

The mercy of God is the thread of love that is written throughout the Scriptures. When Jesus arrives on the scene it is his mercy and forgiveness toward so many people that disrupted the order of the day. Forgiveness and pardon are radical.  Forgiveness and pardon disrupt the systems of judgement and condemnation that we use to keep people in “their place.”  Sometimes, including ourselves.

Jesus spent a lot of time forgiving and healing people that were sinking in the crushing weight of condemnation. He forgave rulers and servants; soldiers and dishonest tax collectors…whoever was seeking.  Every facet of society was within his heart. There is no stone he cannot roll away and say, “come out!”  Jesus wants to roll away our stone too. Whatever is keeping us locked up and locked down – confession brings it to the light so that it can be removed.

Who is a God like you,
who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
of the remnant of his inheritance?
You do not stay angry forever
but delight to show mercy.
You will again have compassion on us;
you will tread our sins underfoot
and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.
– Micah 7:18-19

It can be pretty hard to live each day believing our sins have been removed; erased by this radical love of our Creator. But time after time Jesus makes this clear.  So why do we hang on so tight to our guilt and shame? Why do we rely on ourselves rather than falling fully into the arms of mercy as the grace of God takes the weight, takes the guilt and sets us on a path of peace?   Perhaps it is time for us to stop this madness.  Confession begins the rhythm and forgiveness is immediate; pardon is complete. We cannot earn it. It is a gift of God’s amazing grace.

Maybe we need to practice receiving this gift of forgiveness and pardon.  

Prayer
Holy God, thank you for hearing our confessions.  Thank you for the gift of Christ who removes the weight of our sin and leads us in paths of peace.  Help us to live out of your forgiveness and pardon, so that we are more ready to extend it to others. Thank you for setting us free! Amen.

If you want an encounter with Jesus to ponder as you think about forgiveness and pardon, check out this story from Matthew’s gospel.  https://bit.ly/3fv3LJ7

We The Kingdom – Free Amen

Coming up next: Rhythms of Peace: Part III “Peace be with You”
The practice of Confession-Pardon-Peace helps us integrate a different rhythm into our lives; a rhythm grounded in the peace of Christ.

The rhythm that brings peace into our daily lives is holy.  It is cycle that repeats in the same way the flowers die back in the winter and return in spring. In the same way a seed falls to the ground and with “just the right conditions and time”, as my grandfather always said, will sprout again and bring forth its purpose.  That might be a grain of wheat; a dreaded Johnson grass; a sunflower that cannot be stopped from growing tall and strong; or a persistent thistle that looks pretty but comes to invade.

One of the holy rhythms that brings peace into our daily lives is the rhythm of Confession ~ Pardon ~ Peace. Throughout the Scriptures we see this played out.  The God of heaven meets us in our human condition and something explosive and transformative happens. As explosive as a butterfly breaking from its cocoon; as transformative as a rose that brings forth its full bloom with the strong scent of joy; and as powerful as a rushing river that never stops moving forward.

How do we encourage this rhythm of peace? How do we integrate it into our daily lives in a way that forges an avenue, or perhaps a “river”, that keeps us moving along toward more peaceful lives? Confession helps us begin.

Confession is a practice of clearing. It is a way to be honest with ourselves and with God. If we are blessed enough to have someone that will listen, then our confession is farther reaching than we will ever be able to measure.

Skipping over confession is like not learning the alphabet before you begin to write. Letters thrown together without understanding do not make words we can use.  If you’ve ever started a new job or project where the instructions are filled with acronyms, then you know this. An acronym for which you have no definition is of no value.  Confession lays the foundation for change to happen in our lives; change that brings peace.

The story of David in II Samuel is one example for understanding confession.  David didn’t start out as a king. He started out as a shepherd, one of the lowest positions to have in ancient Israel. He grew close to God as he spent his days and nights in creation, watching over flocks of sheep. He learned to fight off wild animals, to depend on prayer, and to communicate through words and music. Eventually David’s skills and experiences matured him into being an incredible warrior and ultimately, he became a king.  He was not born into status and power but as life unfolded, David came into status and power.  You might say God had him on a journey of preparation.

In a particular moment of his life David let his power and luxury, his heart or his physical desires lead him in a way of sin. We don’t know the specific trigger, perhaps it was all of them together that created an environment for him to act far outside his conscience.  We can only speculate the reasons. David made choices that eventually led him into a situation that became darker and deeper.  The reality remains the same: he found himself standing in sin and needing desperately to find a way free.  His first attempts were to cover up his actions, which he did through some strategic decisions he had the power to implement. It didn’t work. When that failed, he tried to cover up his sin with a murder.  That didn’t work either.  The prophet, Nathan, learned of David’s sin and went to him with it. There was trust in their relationship, but the confrontation took him off guard; he wasn’t expecting it.

Of course, David knew he had sinned.  He was living with this every day.  We can look at his confession and see that he understood his sin was against God. David was a man who loved the Lord. His desire was to serve the Lord. And yet, here he was – buried in a situation that was eating him alive.  There is no way God would leave his servant in that condition. God provides a way for this situation to be redeemed.

 Happy are those whose transgression is forgiven,
whose sin is covered.
Happy are those to whom the Lord imputes no iniquity,
and in whose spirit there is no deceit.

While I kept silence, my body wasted away
through my groaning all day long.
For day and night your hand was heavy upon me;
my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer.

Then I acknowledged my sin to you,
and I did not hide my iniquity;
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”
and you forgave the guilt of my sin.
Psalm 32:1-6

Nathan confronts David and the confession comes pouring out almost as if he has been waiting for someone to open the door and invite him into a new place.  It’s not always easy to know how to take a step out of the darkness until someone shines a light where you can see.  Nathan shines that light for David.  And out of David tumbles his cries of regret.  He falls before God with the weight of his sin so heavy he can no longer stand.  And he gets really honest about where he is.  Psalm 51 is his confession.

Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your steadfast love;
according to your abundant mercy
blot out my transgressions.
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
and cleanse me from my sin.
For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is ever before me.
Against you, you alone, have I sinned,
and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you are justified in your sentence
and blameless when you pass judgment.
Indeed, I was born guilty,
a sinner when my mother conceived me.
Psalm 51:1-5

The cover up is over. David accepts the reality of his sin.  He names it. He accepts that he does not have the power to fix this himself; a simple apology will not do. He cannot erase what has happened.  David acknowledges that this is something only God can redeem. And in this moment, David stops trying to be God (controlling both sin and the forgiveness of sin) and he humbles himself before his Creator. He is turning toward God which is what we call “repentance” …turning in a different direction; a direction toward the God of heaven.  Now there is space for something different to happen.

You desire truth in the inward being;
therefore teach me wisdom in my secret heart.
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Let me hear joy and gladness;
let the bones that you have crushed rejoice.
Hide your face from my sins,
and blot out all my iniquities.

Create in me a clean heart, O God,
and put a new and right spirit within me.
Do not cast me away from your presence,
and do not take your holy spirit from me.
Restore to me the joy of your salvation,
and sustain in me a willing spirit.
Psalm 51:6-12

Nathan is with him. And Nathan tells him: “The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die.” (II Samuel 12:13) David has consequences to live through, but his life is being redeemed right there. It begins and it never stops.  He will not live a life of shame. He is being redeemed to live a life of faithfulness with God directing his steps.  David is being set free from the chains of shame and guilt.  Grace is offered. A rhythm of peace is unleashed. A river that will not stop flowing.

Then I will teach transgressors your ways,
and sinners will return to you.
Deliver me from bloodshed, O God,
O God of my salvation,
and my tongue will sing aloud of your deliverance.
O Lord, open my lips,
and my mouth will declare your praise.
For you have no delight in sacrifice;
if I were to give a burnt offering, you would not be pleased.
The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
Psalm 51:13-17

Confession is a practice of clearing.  It may be as simple as an isolated wrong, or it may be dealing with sin that is complex and deep and systematic.  In all times for the people of God, confession is a practice that leads to forgiveness, repentance and peace. The Lord forgave David immediately.  He did not have to earn it; he only had to receive it.  The LORD forgives!  And we turn our attentions toward God (repentance) to see what that pardon means in our lives.

Practice
Turn to Psalm 51 in your Bible. Pray through it out loud as your personal confession. Name what you want to confess as you read through it. Take a few minutes to comprehend this: in the same way God heard David thousands of years ago, God is hearing you right now. Anytime we offer a confession, the rhythm of peace becomes more and more real in our lives.

Prayer
God we are all in need of your grace. We are in desperate need of your forgiveness; your pardon; your peace. Please meet each of us where we are and hear our confessions of this day. Like David, we are ready to walk forward with you to understand what the gift of redemption means in our lives. We love you and we trust you completely. We offer our prayer in the name of Jesus, the resurrected Christ. Amen.

Coming up next… Rhythms of Peace: Part II “Forgiveness & Pardon”

Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. -Janes1:2-5

Navigating our way through a global pandemic is probably not what any one of us thought we would be doing in 2020. Depending on what article you read or news you hear, it’s even a bit difficult to discern what deserves our attention. Medical professionals are fairly consistent about the practices of health and preventing spread of infection. Stay home if you don’t feel well. If you are going into public spaces, a temp check and a mask may help you prevent spread if you are carrying COVID19 but don’t have symptoms. Get outside – enjoy the sunshine and fresh air; take a walk; go fishing; eat right and reduce your stress level throughout the day.  And don’t forget to wash your hands:)

The more people and places we are around, the more likely we are to come in contact with the virus. So stay as healthy and strong as possible. Take care of your immune system. Help your neighbor, especially those who may not be able to get out of the house.  Fear is not needed; wise and practical living for the situation is warranted. Many generations before us have lived through times of disease and difficulty.  It will pass, but for right now, we have to navigate our way through it.

The reopening of businesses and public places brings a host of questions and opinions are not hard to find. But wisdom is not illusive when it is asked for in faith. Each business, every family, our specific communities, churches and people are all in a different situation. COVID19 may not be an issue for you, but it may be for your neighbor. Your family may have needs that are very different from others. There are a host of other life events unfolding that have nothing to do with the pandemic, and all are tempered by the presence of an illness that is new for all of us. Maybe your family has been blessed by the change of pace and priorities; while others hold private funerals and are faced with grief they never imagined experiencing. We must give one another grace in these days.

We are all seeking what is wise and best for right now. Decisions are made as that discernment is clear. God is generous to offer us wisdom when we ask. The LORD delights in a humble approach that indicates we are both in need of divine help and that we trust God to provide it.

Solomon was young when he took his leadership role as king. He didn’t have the wisdom needed for the task ahead of him, so he asked God. And God responded. (I Kings 3:7-9)

Now, Lord my God, you have made your servant king in place of my father David. But I am only a little child and do not know how to carry out my duties. Your servant is here among the people you have chosen, a great people, too numerous to count or number. So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?
Read more →

The LORD judges. We are equipped to recognize fruit.

Proclaiming judgements is not our role.  We have people that are appointed to positions that require them to make judgements with specific guidelines and parameters.  That work is done with enormous responsibility and weight.  But in general, we are not given the role of judging one another.

There is a story about David and Saul (in the Old Testament) that offers some practical insight. Saul is king over Israel and David will become his successor. Saul is overcome by jealousy; he hates David’s success and he does not want David to become king. He pursues him and does everything he can to kill him.  It’s a bit of a roller coaster with Saul; he is often unstable. He actually loves David like a son but his jealousy is relentless and it leads him down wrong paths.

There is a moment when David and his men are hidden in the back of a cave and Saul happens to stop by that exact spot and go in to relieve himself. David, who is a skillful shepherd and warrior, sneaks up on him and without Saul even knowing it…he cuts off a piece of his clothing! So close! David could have easily killed Saul and ended the madness, but he didn’t.  And there is a reason.

David knew that God was the one that would have be the judge over Saul’s actions toward him. This was not a war environment, though what seemed like an “enemy” was present.  David knew better.  This was about two men and how they were doing life.  It was about what God was doing in them.

David knew that God did not give him the role of avenging Saul’s actions.  Instead, David was supposed to show grace in this moment AND David was to trust God for right judgements in the way only God can provide them.  David was growing in his understanding of God’s ways. So, he didn’t kill Saul. He cut off a piece of his robe instead and then he let Saul know why:

May the LORD judge between you and me. And may the LORD avenge the wrongs you have done to me, but my hand will not touch you.  As the old saying goes, ‘From evildoers come evil deeds, so my hand will not touch you.
– I Samuel 24:12-13

Jesus talked about judgement too and provided some warning about being too quick to judge others.

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
– Matthew 7:1-2

Jesus also offers wisdom for what we are to do as we are trying to discern and understand what we are hearing, seeing and experiencing with others.  We absolutely need to practice wisdom and discernment; this guides our choices and decisions. Jesus reminds us of something we see in nature: fruit trees.

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.  A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
– Matthew 7:15-20

Notice how closely this teaching of Jesus connects with what David said to Saul, “From evildoers come evil deeds, so my hand will not touch you.”  The lesson?  Let the LORD be the judge of others. Train your eyes and spirit to recognize the what is being produced in a life. Don’t be confused by something that looks really good on the outside but is rotten on the inside. When our discernment is clouded, clarity is only a humble prayer away. God is faithful in moments and in seasons. We have been given what we need for this time.

Prayer
God please help us grow in your wisdom for these days. We yield our desire to judge others to you. You are righteous and merciful and just.  You will bring about your judgements at just the right time.  You see and know all things; we see dimly and know very little.  We are grateful for the ways you speak to us and help us when we ask.  Please hear the prayers of your people. Help us all to mature in your wisdom so we can recognize fruit when that is what we need to do. And please let your wisdom be what guides everything we do.  We love you Lord, and we need you. We trust you completely.  Amen.

A Practice
Go outside and spend a few moments noticing trees that are growing in ways that provide shade and shelter, or good wood for building or making fuel.  Notice also brush and invasive plants or trees that choke out other growth or create danger in a particular environment. Let your eyes and mind understand how you are able to notice the difference. Pay attention to the many ways God helps us open our eyes to see.